Old BMS General Thread

Threads relating to the BMS system begun by Peter Perkins

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GregsGarage
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Postby GregsGarage » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:50 am

Peter,

To answer your earlier question about number of cells, the answer is 24. The paralleled opto outputs don't seem to be an issue, all seems o.k. at the moment.

To answer your regen concerns. I could still use the clutch pedal and a hall sensor, but I chose the simple route. The Kelly controller has programmable limits for over and under voltage of the pack. I have set these to 86 volts and 60 volts respectively. It will start to reduce regen and drive output as required when it gets close to these limits. That with your slave boards connected to my management module which will also cut regen completely (or drive after a 5 second warning) if any cell goes over or under voltage, should keep everything happy.

The Fiat is fitted as standard with drum brakes all around. There is quite a lot of travel before the brakes actually apply, so with the brake switch adjusted correctly you get regen without using any braking and for the last few feet when coming to a full stop and the regen cuts out due to slow motor speed your foot is already on the brake.

Thanks for your concerns, it keeps me thinking about why I have done something and sometimes makes me reconsider choices I have made, keep your concerns coming. :D
Greg Fordyce

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http://www.evalbum.com/4191

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Postby retepsnikrep » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:14 pm

Now got both battery blocks assembled! 8)

Still got to wire up all slaves :roll:

But I'm pleased so far.

The orange green and brown wires on the right comming from each block are connected to a DS18B20 I2C temp sensor buried in the middle of each block.

The green and yellow stripped wires connect to 4 oem Insight Nimh Cell PTC temp strips which I have also burried in the blocks.

www.solarvan.co.uk/bms/FullPack.jpg
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Postby retepsnikrep » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:54 pm

The Long Day Closes.

Thanks to massive help from Roger Crier a fellow UK Insight owner who drove up from Birmingham today bearing gifts, and spent 8 hrs in my garage with me wiring up slaves, I can report the finished assembled cell blocks & bms boards.

A couple of wiring glitches aside all 50 slaves worked first time 8) BMS is also reporting correct pack voltage. Scan rate at 1200baud comms is once per second for 50 cells :D No issues with 50 opto's on Master Bus at present.

I have made no efforts at the moment to include any power saving functions in the Digital Slave software unlike the Slave Analogue On/Off ones which I did for Greg, so the Digital Slaves continous drain is an average of 1ma, or 41days for 1ah consumed.

Roger kindly provided some nice clear vacum formed safety covers for the packs and they set the job off a treat.

The led's looks pretty dancing round the slave boards as well :wink: It's like a Mexican wave :shock:

www.solarvan.co.uk/InsightTrio.jpg

www.solarvan.co.uk/HalfPack.jpg

www.solarvan.co.uk/FullPack.jpg

Jobs for next three days include adding plugs and sockets for the various data/bcm connections to each cell block.

Installing the Master Display and front to back wiring into the car for the video and control led's switches.

OK just to humour me here's a video of the BMS Slave boards talking to the Master :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIMPLMPyopY

Probably the most expensive Led Christmas Lights in the world :roll:
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Postby retepsnikrep » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:24 pm

Day off yesterday as had to take the abandonded wife out for a treat :wink: To be fair she's very good about the expense and growing bags under my eyes as I sit pondering software at 04:00hrs :roll:

Today adding all the D-Sub connectors to the battery blocks.

Plug and Pray hopefully :shock: Nearly ready to do the final interconnects on the blocks so they are ready to install/bench test.

Must remember not to charge them fully before putting them in the car as the Honda will do a forced charge as soon as it starts up to try and work out it's own Soc idea :?

Must leave some headroom for that. It still thinks it has got an 4ah nimh pack of course.

Be interesting to see if the extra capacity can be used without hacking the IMA sytem further.

(May have to add a Potential divider 10/1 into the IMA current sensor output so it only sees a 10th of the current)
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Postby retepsnikrep » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:26 am

Software tweaking today whilst I wait for Farnell and RS to shape up.

Whenever you are desperate for stuff the next day it never comes :roll:

Tested Master Watchdog timer and works ok. If no pulses from Master for a minute (Time can be altered) then forces audible/visual alarm and Master reset which cut's off any charging etc. I'll probably keep it set at a minute because if you use Display B and look at the individual cell voltages in the list, the pulses are halted whilst you are in this option, if you forget to exit it, then the system will reset after a minute anyway. 8)

Slightly changes to Digital Slave software to speed up data transfer.

Cosmetic changes to Master software to report number of cells on main screen.

www.solarvan.co.uk/bms/Watchdog290708_v04.txt

www.solarvan.co.uk/bms/SlaveDigital2309 ... 00baud.txt

www.solarvan.co.uk/bms/Master230908_v24.txt
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Postby GregsGarage » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:15 pm

A quick update on how I am getting on with Peter's analouge slave boards.

The balancing times are getting quicker as the new pack gets some more cycles on it. My charger puts 14 amps into the pack right up till the emeter has counted back to 0 amp hours. 8) It then starts to taper off the current and soon after the High voltage optos start to cycle the charger on and off while the cells balance. After a 30ah discharge the e-meter is sitting at +1.3ah . The balancing probably won't take more than another 0.1-0.2ah so I am quite pleased with this. I do need to investigate why my 11 mile journey is now taking 30ah instead of the 24 ah I was first getting. It may be as simple as my right foot getting a bit heavier, :shock: or maybe the new brakes on the front are dragging a bit.

I have taken 88ah out of my 100ah pack with no sign of a low voltage cutout. 8) I am using a Paktrakr connected across every 4 cells (its designed for 12v lead acid batteries) and the lowest reading I had was 10.9 volts on acceleration, which works out to around 2.7 volts per cell average. A bit of a dilemma as to how to test the low voltage cutout. I might reprogram 1 slave with a LV value of 3.0 volts for testing. At the moment they are set to turn on the LV opto at 2.4 volts and go off at 2.5 volts.

I have goten one of Peter's master pcb and will be building that up. I might try and use that display to completly replace my existing instrument cluster since it has speed and mileage info availible. One question Peter, would it be possible to run both the video out and the lcd display at the same time with the appropiate software modifications? This won't be a priority though, as it may be a while before it gets implemented.
Greg Fordyce

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Postby retepsnikrep » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:41 pm

Greg

This is really good news. Perhaps my fear the pics might lock up is unjustified. I feel a bit more confident now about my own install. Which I'm hoping to complete within the next couple of weeks.

The lcd output is the same as the one that drives the video chip on the board. The video chip requires 9600 baud 8,N,1 data the lcd serial 16x2 Picaxe display requires 2400 baud 8,N,1 data. So it could drive either with a change to the baud rate. I suggest fit a socket for the video chip if you may remove it and use the lcd serial display as I don't know how that would respond to the slower data rate. The actual display layout is all designed for the 16x9 rca video output YOU would have to tinker with the software to get what you wanted out onto the lcd. 16x2 is very limiting which is why I upgraded. You can't use both at the same time with the current single ouput pcb layout ASFAIK.

You could hack the pcb and sacrifice the drive inhibit output by removing the opto and just make it a bog standard output, this can then be programmed to drive the serial 16x2 lcd as a seperate entity.

My efforts will be devoted soley to the video output at present. It's much nicer and more comprehensive, my intention is also to upgrade it with graphs etc later on BMS Master board MK2 :wink:

If you want a Pixaxe serial 16x2 display you can have one for the same price as on the Picaxe site, (I've got a spare) I'll send those connectors as well :roll:
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Postby retepsnikrep » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:46 pm

GregsGarage wrote:Maybe the new brakes on the front are dragging a bit.
That gets my vote :shock:

GregsGarage wrote:I have goten one of Peter's master pcb and will be building that up. I might try and use that display to completly replace my existing instrument cluster since it has speed and mileage info availible.


Eventually when I get round to making it work :roll: It's currently REM'D out of the Master software :wink:

I'm concentrating on the basics and will then add stuff back in bit by bit when I'm on the road :)
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

GregsGarage
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Postby GregsGarage » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:15 pm

The balancing phase took 2 1/2 hours then the charger decided the battery was full and switched off. It seems my concerns about it cycling endlessly in a balancing phase are unfounded. :D The Paktracker reads all "batteries" to be within 0.2 volts or an average of 0.05volts per cell.

It will be a while before I actually need the master display, so plenty of time to squash some bugs. I still haven't had the time to properly study the master software (a bit of a moving target :shock: ) or the pcb scematic. I have started working on a shopping list for the components though. Will post it when its done.

As well as changing the brakes, I have increased the tyre size from a 70 profile to an 80 profile in the hope of some more top speed in 3rd. Currently it is around 50 mph on the level. In 4th I have achieved 55 mph with lots more amps which points to an aerodynamic issue. The 126 is not the most streamlined car around! :shock: The jurys still out on the larger tyre size.
Greg Fordyce

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http://www.evalbum.com/4191

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Finished Battery Block

Postby retepsnikrep » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:30 pm

Finally finished the first battery block, other one almost done one connector to go. 8)

You can see in the picture below 3 leads, the only other connections not shown are the two main power cables obviously not connected until installed. :shock:

The three leads are divided into various functions.

The Yellow Data 15 pin D sub connector contains the temp stuff.

2x Insight oem thermistors (4 wires)
1x Insight PTC strip (2 wires)
1x DS18B20 I2C Temp sensor (3 wires)
12v Power for fan. (2 wires)

The new 12V PC cpu fan is only 12mm thick and is not there to cool the cells but to remove the heat from the balancing resistors under the plastic cover. It is activated by the Master as soon as any cell reaches the balancing point.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=874228

The Red Data 9 pin D sub connector contains the data stuff.

It is used to inteconnect the two blocks of cells. The other block also has the same connector.

1x Slave Data Bus (2 wires)
1x Master Data Bus (2 wires)

The Red BCM 9 pin D sub connector contains the Insight Oem battery control module (BCM) voltage tap points.

1 x BCM Tap points (6 wires) Half the pack.

www.solarvan.co.uk/bms/FinalBlockF.jpg

Must remember to program this block with the new slave software :roll:

Even managed to get some orange insulating tape to wrap the leads so it looks stock ish! Insight's have orange cable everywhere in that IMA box :wink:
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.


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