Casram Brushes

[sparky]

I would be a little cautious in using none genuine brushes, in the 80s I worked for a company that overhauled traction motors to save money they sourced a company to make brushes to spec (not sdcarbons of Belfast there brushes may be perfectly ok).
Well a few weeks later the motors started to come back upon examination we found that the brush wires where coming detached out of the brush, the current was than trying to flow through the springs and brush holders, with as you can imagine disastrous results, it cost the company a bit of money in warranty claims they return to using only genuine parts after that.
I mean how often do you need to change them I personally think its better to stick to genuine brushes.

Neil

[ChrisB]

We have already found and seen issues with non geniune brushes and controllers that go poof

However John and the others are looking into getting what would be originals, just they arent from Citroen or their prices

It appears that we're getting about 6k out of a set currently but it depends if you which type you have fitted.

I'm not sure what the current Citroen price is but it was in the region of £120 I think

ChrisB

[Flying John]

Yes you are right - we do need to be cautious. I think Casram Schunk SD Morganite all have good reputations in the manufacture of carbon brushes - if not they would not have been in business for so long.

However its good to be aware that there are chinese, taiwances and eastern european manufacturers of carbon brush products and I would steer well clear of those, even if they were a pound each. Its too much to risk damaging the motors.

Having said all that.... My first set of genuine schunk brushes one of the tails became seperated , the remaining wire overheated and the brush eventually crumbled. So it can happen - even with a proper brush !!

[sparky]

Im not totally against none genuine brushes from proven manufacturers as the ones John mentioned (especially when genuines are £120 a set).
Today I checked the brushes on my berlingo (well the bottom one).
It measured 9mm from ware line 28mm long there was no manufacture name on.
The brush was marked 34/98 105 S+E 7055
My vans a 99 model and has done 15000 miles I take it that these wont be the originals can you shed any light on the make and what the markings mean? thank you.

Neil.

[Flying John]

The E105 is the grade of brush, the 98 is (we think) the year of manufacture.

These could be the original set fitted if the van was a 98 or 99 model. I would think about getting a set "in stock" as I reckon another 10mm will last you maybe 5000 miles.

John

[jezf]

To take a look at ONE brush to judge whether they all need replacing is fairly simple.

Open bonnet and pull one large main battery pack fuse.

From a pit - or put the car on ramps - undo the two bolts that secure the small plastic inspection opening on the bottom right hand side of the Motor - looking from the front and underneath.

With a long allen key or small bent skewer hook under the brush spring and hold it back - slide out the brush and inspect how much carbon is left onthe brush.

You may also see roughly how much you have left by just observing the brush through the hole - perhaps using a small dentists type mirror. Normally the brushes wear evenly between the 4 so if the one you look at is very low in the holder, or if you take it out and there is only about 20mm left then its time to replace.

I have had a call from citroen re my berlingo servicing, this is to be £376 for the service incl maintenance charge (£250), gearbox oil change (£67) and 'battery acid' (£59). The bushes need replacing too at a cost of £120 additional. Was a little more than I was anticipating!! Is this fair?

[ChrisB]

To take a look at ONE brush to judge whether they all need replacing is fairly simple.

Open bonnet and pull one large main battery pack fuse.

From a pit - or put the car on ramps - undo the two bolts that secure the small plastic inspection opening on the bottom right hand side of the Motor - looking from the front and underneath.

With a long allen key or small bent skewer hook under the brush spring and hold it back - slide out the brush and inspect how much carbon is left onthe brush.

You may also see roughly how much you have left by just observing the brush through the hole - perhaps using a small dentists type mirror. Normally the brushes wear evenly between the 4 so if the one you look at is very low in the holder, or if you take it out and there is only about 20mm left then its time to replace.

I have had a call from citroen re my berlingo servicing, this is to be £376 for the service incl maintenance charge (£250), gearbox oil change (£67) and 'battery acid' (£59). The bushes need replacing too at a cost of £120 additional. Was a little more than I was anticipating!! Is this fair?

Errrrrrrr well depends, Maintenance charge is plug in a computer and press a button then walk away from the vehicle for the next 8-10hrs so not exactly labour intensive (bearing in mind Evans EVlite does the same job for £300 or there abouts and you can use it time and time again) Gearbox oil changing ?? never heard of that one before yes it needs topping up or at the very least checking but changing bear in mind that it takes something like the grand total of 1/4 ltr so its not like its going to cost a fortune to top up. I suppose if you wanted to be REALLY anorakey you could change it but I wouldnt normally.

Battery acid !!!!! I REALLY hope they dont put battery acid in it Nicads use a alkaline solution in them any way, getting acid any where near them will kill them stone dead. This is exactly what worries me about main dealers ......do they really know what they are doing I suspect they might be and I hope they are refering to the distilled water thats needed to top the batteries up after the Maint Charge has completed, this is normal distilled/deionised water that can be bought from motor factors for around 10-15 pounds per 20ltrs which is about what you will need.

Brushes thats a fair price'ish , last lot I paid for which where non gen ones where about £60 but I did get a price for Gen ones over a year ago and they where about that price.

So in fairness and as long as they ACTUALLY know what they are doing then its sort of average, the only thing I would really question is the gearbox oil change, check yes , change no, not unless it has had problems or there are issues with the gearbox.

Bear in mind a EVlite and watering kit will cost about £320 and water will be about another £15 , set of brushes non gen will be about £75 now and gearbox oil is say £10 for a ltr
So for something like £420 which is just about £50 more you :-
a) get to carry out the service correctly
b) get to keep the kit afterwards and use it the next time ( which depending on driving will be in about 3-5 thousand miles, and that time you can half the cost of the kit compared to the citreon service costs and each time afterwards as well.

All of the above type of servicing can be carried out by someone who has very basic knowledge, nothing that technical at all.

So its up to you, also it depends how desperate you are to have it serviced ?

ChrisB

[jezf]

chris, thanks for your detailed reply!!

Basically it went in because i noticed a small oily leak from the underside of the van. I was a bit concerned, and it was coming up the annual service anyway, so I booked it in. They said during the heat we have had recently, the batts can 'sweat' a little bit, and they have been checked and nothing to worry about. Having said that, it was an oily substance to the touch, not water...

I asked them to specifically check the leak, and they said its fine. They said the gearbox is a bit noisy, and could do with an oil change.

I sincerely hope they were referring to the water top up, not acid!!

The brushes are a bit low, so they recommend a change to them too.

In total a bit pricey, what would you recommend? Is it advisable for me to change oil myself and change brushes myself? I am quite handy but don't have much knowledge of cars etc. I am sure with yours and your peers' knowledge and support I can do this!!

Thanks

[Flying John]

I agree with what Chris says - Whereabouts in the country are you. If anywhere near me - I could do the brushes with you and show you how it is done. If you are near Chris I am sure he would show you how good the EVlite is at doing maint charges.

If none of the above then I am sure we are both happy to offer advice - but you would neeed the EVlite to do the maint charge prior to top up.

John

[Grumpy-b]

Just a point, where was the oily leak? The coolant can seem oily, if its that then beware of leaks and battery problems.

Have you had a reduction in travel distance, and what can you do on a charge?

Many dealers are not well placed to do the work. They did train staff up to 2004, but not since. In my part of the world, my Ipswich dealers wont touch the vehicles, and my Colchester one will, sort of, one chap is trained but doesnt work on the vehicles anymore, and worst the Garage Management have forbidden the use of heavy charging, which I presume Maint charging falls into, as they are afraid of exploding batteries and the fear of compensation.
If you are reasonably mechanically competant, and invest in an Evlite you can do work yourself.
I also would be willing to help if someone is in my area.

Regards
Grumpy-b