Insurance

[ChrisB]

................

If you fit your own seats of your own design then ok I can see where they may be comming from but all this talk of engineers reports and qualified fitters is a nonsense and a money making / money saving excercise by some insurance companies.

Must admit I'm wondering this too I'm pretty sure all the seat and seat belt mounts are actually in the vehicle already and just need "uncovering" but I could be wrong ?

ChrisB

[qdos]

Yep indeedy 9 out of 10 times all the fixings are already on the chassis/shell as the cars on the production line are all the same till the last fitting out really so you should find all brackets for mounting to the chassis are there what ever the vehicle is unless it's on a special subframe assembly.

[tim.strutt]

We have two brand new sets of Multispace seats (taken from Wheel chair conversions) that we'd hoped to simply bolt into the rear of the vans...the seats, belts, screws, washers, and brackets etc – They don't,

I'm not a Blingo owner or anything but as I see it the Blingo comes in two formats both based on the same basic shell.

With two major differences as I have found, and showed them to TimC at the recent Manchester BVS show – The Floor pan, and sides are different!

If you take a look at Robins www.berlingo-e.co.uk site he has some pictures of the work required to fit seats into his "four door" berlingo. Ours are five door versions, i.e have a side loading door on the LHS, which makes it slightly easier, as I believe that the side of the vans on the LHS are commont to both our vans and the Multispace, the RHS is most definitely not.

From memory there are four fabrications documented (with photographs) on Robins site.

1) The floor pan in the van does not have the "lugs" that the seat "Hooks" (at the bottom rear of the seats) onto that allows the seat in the Multispace to hinge forward to increase the load bed area

2) Front Lower seat Hinges - holes have to be cut to allow the seat to be bolted to the front edge of the load area, once you use a spot weld cutter to remove (c30?) spot welds and remove the false floor over the "passenger" foot wells.

3) The Top LH+RH loops the "shoulder" of the seats hook onto the side of the Van need fabricating, as the ones from a Multispace will not fit the 4 Door Berlingo van variant (NOTE ours have the LH sliding door, so you only need to modify the sides without doors i.e. the ones for the RHS- the C-Pillar on the Multispace is different to the non-door van variant - also see below)

4) The Top seat belt mount on the C-Pillar does not exist on the 4 door VAN Variant - again ours has the top LH seat belt mount, as the LH side of the van is as mentioned similar to the Multispace. The RHS side C-Pillar does not, and only has a mark where the mount should be, also the c-Pillar on the RHS is imo not strong enough to take a seat belt mount without strengthening.

I hope this makes sense. , TimC can verify its not as simple as we would have thought it would be to "retrofit" Multispace seats in a Berlin go van.

We also have a retrofit Berlingo seat conversion we picked up from a breakers, which does away with most of the above, but its a low back bench seat, that only has four contact points with the floor of the van. The seat belts are of the lap type, and so are not legal for children ( nor safe!!) for children under 13yrs, and 135cm, and not very comfortable form adults ........

I did however see a pair of seats advertised recently on Ebay froma Romahome (?) conversion, they had three point belts and a simple frame to bolt/weld to the floor, but as they were in Tyne&Wear it was too far north to consider – they didn't sell so may come back on

Life used to be so simple.

TimS

[Joe T]

I already insure a kit car with Footman James and they have just quoted me £396 for my Berlingo!, 5 years no claims, fully comp etc

By coinicedence I asked Churchills for a quote and they came in at £201.

Bit surprised at the difference, churchills want a certificate from a garage on the rear seat, Footman James required nothing and on further questioning stated that the rear seat was not the reason for the high price, but suggested I tried next year? er thanks.

Peter Best are having a look but not much joy so far on a Private policy may have to go commercial and add private use.

[Grumpy-b]

I now have both mine insured withNFU, as Light Goods insurance just £300 but they do accept modifications. Just requiring a note on the modifications and a Local MOT stations stamp / letterhead will suffice
I need Business use, ie I can go to different Offices or site in the working day, and footman James woulnt consider this , but would do the modified insurance on a purely SDP insurance.
I have nothing but praise for the NFU.
My previous insurance was with Zuric and the price was good about £280 but absolutely no modifications, even just wheels.

Grumpy-b

[Joe T]

Peter best have come back with a commercial policy but with SDP on it, £269. but with no issues or requests on the rear seat. In fact they seemed to prefer the idea its a 4 seater!

I have looked with interest at retro fitting the berlingo multispace seats, here http://www.rmsconsult.co.uk/berlingo/convert_seats2.htm
Whilst I am sure it would probably be fine you would have no idea of weld penetration, whether it would pass a pull test would be subjective. but I do wonder when you look at the weld area.

It might be better to make the same attachment piece but with larger flanges and offer it up from underneath, this would spread the pull load wider and allow some area for seam welding round the aperture as well as holes drilled in the original floor to attach the flanges.

[MalcolmB]

Those look like plug welds to me Joe, so penetration shouldn't really be a problem. The flanges on the 'pocket' are drilled first, so the weld doesn't have to penetrate both layers. It should easily be strong enough if the welds are half decent, but bolting a plate from underneath would naturally remove the element of doubt.

[Grumpy-b]

The genuine seat mounting is actually welded to the side of the U channel below the mount. If you buy the cross member from PSA the mounts are already attached.An alternative would be to make the bar a deep u section and drill two holes in the bottom of the channel. push the u through. One could then not only fix at the top like the pictures but weld around the ends of the bar where they go through. Only issue would be the close proximity to the Petrol tank.

Grumpy-b

[tim.strutt]

Grumpy couldn't agree more about NFU - very interested to hear they'd accept a stamp from an MOT station with notes of modification - I'll mention that to my agent.

I had similar thoughts about using a length of angle iron over most of the leading edge of the load bay to bolt the hinges to, cutting holes in the floor to accomodate said bolts, then welding it on both edges along much of the bar.

For the rear of the seats thought of using angle iron the full width accross the load bay, you could weld seat belt anchor points to either end, and cut the areas where the lower seat clasps would latch onto. Cut the floor to remove the two blank "domes", and welding the fabrication to the floor along much of its length, if its braced enough under the floor in that area - my fathers a CEng MechE and questioned if it was strong enough to take an impact with three 20 stone people welded to that section of the floor, and admittedly the front edge .

The only remaining concern then is the top seat belt mounts - and
the fact the C pillar probably isn't strong enough to rely on in the case of said RTC, (different guage metal on the LHS with an anchor point vs. RHS with no anchor point) - so that would need reinforcing/ replacing.

TimS

[Grumpy-b]

The reason for going to the NFU was that I have a set of rear seats to go in mine and there was no point in continuing insurance with Zuric whou wouldnt have considered the mods. The rear seats are from the early 3 door multispace so they are the correct width. I will try and photograph any alternative methods I use. I dont think the seat belt mounts should be a problem, just a bit of thought and some simple fabrication. Trying to duplicate the originals is a good start but one mustnt forget they can build in a very differnt way without the constraints of a completed vehicle to contend with. Leteral thinking is v important.
I recently saw a set of late rear multispace seats mounted in a van and the chap had put a 20mm box section across the whole width of the van, so that the seat back could be locked to it. It did however mean the load bay had a permanent cross piece. Im not sure I would take this approach though. Im not willing to lose my load space options.

Grumpy-b