Morris Minor Conversion

Have you made or bought a converted vehicle if so this is for you
gucu
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:58 pm

Morris Minor Conversion

Postby gucu » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:05 pm

Hi All

I am the owner of 1959 ailing Morris Minor. I need to look at replacing the gearbox and rebuilding or upgrading the engine. I decided to look into electrifying the vehicle to see if it is a viable option. Most of my journey's consist of 20 mile round trips. Although I do some 50 - 100 mile trips. I have been advised to:
1. Source a motor, an adaptor plate to connect it the gearbox. I have to decide on whether to fix the gears.
2. Decide on the type of motor to give sufficient power and a controller to match.
3. Look at batteries, chemistry, voltage, range and fitting them.
4. And also charging.

1. I am presuming I am going to purchase a fork lift truck motor. Can I buy new? Do I need to get an adapter plate purposefully built?
2. I currently travel at around 55mph. Would like a bit more power and I tow a trailer and trailer tent.
3. ?????
4. Plug it in?

As you can see this really is the first step. Is there anywhere in Cornwall or Devon I can go and talk these things through. Can you guys help me online or would you just say give up it's too big a project.

Thanks

Rich
http://gucu.org.uk/

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skooler
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:19 pm
Location: Worcestershire
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Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby skooler » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:17 pm

gucu wrote:Hi All

I am the owner of 1959 ailing Morris Minor. I need to look at replacing the gearbox and rebuilding or upgrading the engine. I decided to look into electrifying the vehicle to see if it is a viable option. Most of my journey's consist of 20 mile round trips. Although I do some 50 - 100 mile trips. I have been advised to:
1. Source a motor, an adaptor plate to connect it the gearbox. I have to decide on whether to fix the gears.
2. Decide on the type of motor to give sufficient power and a controller to match.
3. Look at batteries, chemistry, voltage, range and fitting them.
4. And also charging.

1. I am presuming I am going to purchase a fork lift truck motor. Can I buy new? Do I need to get an adapter plate purposefully built?
2. I currently travel at around 55mph. Would like a bit more power and I tow a trailer and trailer tent.
3. ?????
4. Plug it in?

As you can see this really is the first step. Is there anywhere in Cornwall or Devon I can go and talk these things through. Can you guys help me online or would you just say give up it's too big a project.

Thanks

Rich
http://gucu.org.uk/


Hi Rich,

All is doable and your more than welcome to come and see us (indra.co.uk) in Worcestershire (understand that this is a few hours away!)

Do you have a budget in mind?

Adaptor plate is about the most complicated part. You might want to consider using a different gearbox and running gear as I doubt the minor equipment is up to all the torque....

a used DC motor or even something like a kostov 9 or larger if budget allows will be ideal.

I highly recommend the Evnetics soliton 1 or Jr as a motor controller.

You'll want lithium batteries. If you want justification on why not to use Lead read my build thread in my signiture :)

public charging is relatively easy to implement.
Posts by Mike Schooling
Director and tech lead at indra.co.uk

Mazda RX8, Soliton Jr, 24KWH Sinopoly LiFePO4, Kostov 11alpha
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 61556.html

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:00 pm

Good luck with the project.
You have two main routes, DC or AC.
If DC then you could use an old forklift motor, but it will be very heavy , underpowered and need plenty of love and attention. New the common DC motors are by Netgain and Kostov, and people mostly use soliton kelly or Curtis controllers. A lot is US sorced kit, and probably little over here. DC also dont work so well uphill, and are difficult to get regeneration (Charge back to the battery) when decelerating. Most DC systems are well under 140v
AC can be considered as low and high voltage.
Low voltage is between 72 and say 140v and High voltage is 200v upwards. Most conversion kit is in the lower voltage range, and the higher voltage tends to be OEM stuff, and parts originally made for OEMs, such as the Ford Transit connect, Leaf, Miev etc.
AC are supposed to be more effecient, dont have brushes to wear out, and are simpler. The most common low voltage kit is the HPEVS range, and these are generally coupled to Curtis controllers, which are superb and highly adjustable. AC is better at hill climbing (if set up right) and does regen.
A good voltage for you would be between 82 and 110v resting voltage, (Charge much higher) with between 25 and 32 cells, you could go more but you then run into problems with the regen voltage being too high for the controllers.(Higher Volatage curtis are available but are more expensive)
Cells vary in voltage slightly depending upon make but Lifepo4 are between 3.3 and 3.5 standing voltage (Higher finish charge) Lion as in Leafs etc are nearer to 3.7v. Capacity is measured in Amp Hours AH, and new prices are generally in so many dollars / ah, in China and before transport and Taxes etc.
With cells you have chinese Lifepo4 (Thundersky) now Sinopoly , or CALB, or many others. CALB being the highest quality and more costly. Newer versions are slightly more energy dense. Or you have EX OEM cells, like those from the Nissan leaf, these tend to be much smaller in AH capacity but are physically smaller and used in higher voltage systems, so more cells higher voltage but less current .
Other bits are chargers, Vacuum pumps for servos, cabling, gauge, throttle pot, BMS etc
The final bit of the jigsaw is the BMS, you either love them or hate them. I hate some, as they tend to destroy the batteries, I love some as they can give good data, but when they go wrong, thats bad news. If using no BMS then you have to be willing to adopt other routines to safeguard the battery pack and bottom balance it and not overcharge it. My smart has no BMS and was great for a year, until it got left for a month or so after a periodic fault meant my wife wouldnt use it. When I finally got around to sorting it, the cells are quite well depleated. Hopefully as they were bottom balanced they should be OK.
For an Ac system
New Costs
Motor / controller £2.5+K
Charger £2to500
BMS £0 to 1200
Cells £3K + (just dependson how much AH you are looking at)
THrottle pot+ gauge £120
Coupling and adaptor £3to500
Cabling £200
+ a load of time and fabrication for mountings, battery cases cable mountings etc etc.
You should also allow for help with the programming or purchase of your own programming kit for the controller

If you want to go the used route then there are lots of other options, including purchasing a complete vehicle as a parts car. A C1 with all you would need could be yours for around £5k or less.
Lots of stuff to get you head around.
Just ask
Grumpy-b

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Rory166
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 7:45 am
Location: Norwich, UK

Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby Rory166 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:37 pm

Rich

I drive a forklift powered seicento and I would say it is underpowered and motor overheats using lithium batteries. It can do 60 mph if there is a bit of downhill to get going but as soon as a bit of uphill you are down to 40. I do tow a little.

On a conversion the choice is more between clutch and no clutch. Normally you keep the ability to select gears. Commercial adaptions like the Evie fix in 3rd gear. My seicento would struggle without using gears.

Like Grumpy says AC is the way to go these days if the budget allows. Basicly the cost of a conversion is quite high and these days you can get a secondhand manufactured EV for perhaps less. Grumpy sells Evies quite cheap sometimes. Peugeot Ions are from 7k and Nissan Leaf from 8.5k. I have also got a new Leaf and frankly it leaves most conversions for dead. On the race track I have had it read 100mph on the dash (was really 90 I assume). The fact of Rapid charging on the motorways is what makes the new EVs quite useful. For example when I visited grumpy in Colchester from Norwich I charged at Glyn Hopkin Nissan in 30 mins to come home. I drove 400 miles from Gloucester to Norwich via Birmingham and Thirsk as my first journey and that was OK. Quite fun actually.

Rory

PS sadly Schooler is probably right about the gearbox and torque because I have got an Astra conversion with a trashed final drive which I need to change.
Electric Seicento conversion, Leaf

gucu
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby gucu » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:27 am

Thanks for all the replies on this topic. Sadly I think it is out of my price bracket at the moment. Although I am just off for a meeting about receiving sponsorship for putting an electric engine in the Morris Minor. They're be using a motor from a Nissan Leaf!

We'll see....

Rich

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby Grumpy-b » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:13 am

While your gearbox may not like too much power, I think 3rd may well be straight through. The rear axle / final drive is fairly robust, but could be swapped for a Ford axle, escort Anglia etc
which has a range of ratios with 4.1.5 to 4.5 being an option (vans)
Leaf engine woul be better suited to a FWD installation with complete drive train.
Interesting to hear what happens

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Rory166
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 7:45 am
Location: Norwich, UK

Re: Morris Minor Conversion

Postby Rory166 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:32 pm

There is a damaged Ion on ebay for 4.8K which is rear wheel drive. Not sure if there is room on the moggy for the drive train. Might have to raise the boot floor. Would have the advantage of rapid charging.

Rory
Electric Seicento conversion, Leaf


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